Banning lesbians – same sex attraction is not bigotry

I have avoided writing about this because I know what the reaction can be like and I have seen what happens to women who do speak publicly about this.

I have tried quite hard to discuss various issues WITHOUT addressing this because it is polarising, causes people to stop thinking, and leads to abuse and harassment. Moreover it is difficult to write anything nuanced on this topic without people misinterpreting and wilfully misrepresenting your words. And then there’s the ever-so-trendy hate that rains down on those that state publicly what others keep quiet about.

But I know that not writing about this is being silenced. I have “allowed” myself to be silenced on this just as many other women have, because of potential fallout.

And there is no amount of staying quiet that can keep us safe as lesbians, because there is an attempt from some to redefine the word lesbian to exclude us.

lesbians banned

This includes a clear attempt to coercively redraw lesbian women’s sexual boundaries and to silence the lesbians who protest this.

I have no interest in defining and complicating others’ lives* but words have meanings and language matters.

We cannot stay silent while we are told that we are bigots for being lesbian.

To be a lesbian is to be a female who is romantically, emotionally and sexually attracted to other females. This is same-sex attraction.

There are those who argue a different definition of this word.

The debate hinges on

a) whether you think transwomen are women or not**
and
b) whether you think sexuality is attraction on the basis of gender*** or sex

If you think that sexuality is about same SEX attraction, you may have noticed something going on.

Women who say that they are lesbian and ONLY attracted to females are being told they are bigots, and are being abused on this basis.

I don’t care if women are attracted to (and in relationships with) transwomen but what concerns me is the use of the word lesbian to describe that relationship because of the implications for same-sex attracted lesbians. My interest is solely caused by the implications for same-sex attracted lesbians of that language use – this is about the difference between self-affecting acts and other-affecting acts.

There are real consequences if the word lesbian includes transwomen.

When those of us who are same-sex attracted lesbians try to describe ourselves, our relationships or our sexuality, what word are we to use if we cannot use ‘lesbian’? If the word used for some time to describe us, as understood by most people, is no longer representative of us what language are we to use?

More than this, if the word lesbian cannot be used in a context that excludes transwomen then we are even more marginalised. And this is what I see happening, this is what has happened to women I know, what has happened to me.

Lesbians are being told they are bigots, transphobes, transmysogynists and TERFs for considering it ACCEPTABLE  for lesbians to be solely attracted to other females.

Originally when this was not such an extreme situation, I was not as concerned, assuming that using the word ‘female’ to specify same-sex attraction would be sufficient and unproblematic.

However, this is now a problem for two reasons. Firstly, any number of transwomen define themselves as female, rendering the qualifier useless in some conversations. But for those who consider the word female to denote biological sex, it is apparently unacceptable to exclude “non-female lesbians”.

In a lesbian group, amongst lesbians, I was told that it is transphobic for lesbians to be solely attracted to females. It is not a sexuality, apparently, it is a bigotry!! This happens repeatedly to lesbians around the world.

Lesbians must be able to name our own reality and we need that word to describe female-to-female same-sex attraction. We have no other word.

For centuries we have been socially sanctioned for our sexuality, we have been closeted, persecuted, abused, correctively raped, and killed, solely on the basis of being lesbian. Compulsory heterosexuality has weighed heavily on us, and we have borne the burden of oppression as women AND as lesbians.

And now we find that, in a lesbian community, being a dyke is suddenly outlawed?

In what way is this not just the continuation of compulsory heterosexuality?

When we are told that not being attracted to someone who was born male****  is immoral, this is exactly the same as being told that we are deviants for attraction to women and non-attraction to men, but it is now clothed in language that frames and proclaims us as oppressive for acknowledging biological facts and our own sexuality.

I see young lesbians confused by this, trying to do the “right” thing. Baby dykes asking if being lesbian CAN mean only being attracted to females, trying hard to be inclusive even in their own sexual experiences.

That women are still asking if sexual boundaries are acceptable means that the rape culture which constantly erodes and undermines women’s sexual boundaries and attacks our determination to maintain them, carries on, stronger than ever.

We MUST name our own sexual boundaries.

We MUST name our own sexuality.

Any attempt to stop us, to oppose our right to speak on this and our right to use the only language we have to describe our reality, is profoundly anti lesbian.

Don’t you dare tell us our sexuality is bigotry and pretend that it is social justice. This is nothing but a continuation of lesbian erasure through culturally sanctioned male sexual entitlement to women.

That anyone is convinced of the opposite is a testament to how marginalised and misrepresented lesbians are.

I am not saying that women cannot be in relationships with transwomen, nor am I am devaluing those relationships or the people in them, but I AM saying that if the term lesbian is broadened beyond same sex attraction, and indeed redefined to exclude it, then we are silenced, and by our own community.

That this silencing is accepted speaks of a deep and continuing hatred of lesbians.

There is so much more that needs to be said.

Every element of what has been happening needs to be named, but unfortunately it all leads back to our silence, the silence of women – especially of lesbians – about our own lives, both individually and collectively.


The many caveats:

* I have zero interest in policing anyone else’s life, and even less interest in policing who people love. But we need to analyse the meaning of what is happening. I’m certainly not interested in supporting systems that make it even harder for people to be gender non conforming.

** I am using transwomen for the sake of common understanding. There are alternate terms, including trans*women, trans women, M2F and so on. While I’m not exploring that debate now, I have to acknowledge that it is contested and fraught territory with real political significance.

*** Gender – personal identity vs oppressive hierarchy…

**** Born male – more contested language here. Male, born male, AMAB (assigned male at birth), and so on. There’s a lot out there on this. I’m not rewriting or exploring it now.

Because I know I will be asked this – I do not advocate violence, I abhor it. I do not advocate discrimination, I oppose it. Gender critical analysis is compatible with my beliefs that all humans should be able to access basic social infrastructure equally, irrespective of sex, sexuality, gender conformity, race, religion, ability/medical condition, marital status, pregnancy, parental responsibilities and other characteristics or group affiliations, be they perceived or actual.

That I feel the need to state these caveats has a lot to do with the framing of the broader debate, and the way in which lesbians and feminists are misrepresented…

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107 responses to “Banning lesbians – same sex attraction is not bigotry

  1. Well of course we want to get intimate and sexual with wimmin, not blokes.
    Men have never been exactly happy about that, have they…. Some men find wimmin disgusting and repulsive but even those guys can be aroused and do sex with wimmin.
    So male desire to fuck wimmin must be a domineering experience for them methinks. …

    So these trans peeps. You say that you don’t want to get into that but that is in fact the debate.
    Men who claim to ‘be’ wimmin… when they’re not.
    And you know, we’re mostly too embarrassed to tell them that it’s obvious that they’re not.
    Because we are kind like that…
    but we’re not doing ourselves any favours by trying to be considerate. Since they want our identity. They want our social spaces.. and they want our bodies too. They want us, remember?

    And we don’t. want. them.
    So its logical that they will try to punish us and even destroy us….

    We have to be clear about male supremacy and women as a class being oppressed actually, by men.
    Lesbianism and Feminism go together.

    Liked by 16 people

  2. Lesbians should be allowed to say this out loud, without any disclaimers. Lesbians are females who are attracted to females.

    Liked by 12 people

  3. Reblogged this on eachone.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Pingback: Banning lesbians – same sex attraction is not bigotry | Critiquing Transgender Doctrine & Gender Identity Politics

  5. You’ve got my support, although it may not matter. But this is certainly absurd and the sort of denial of objective reality that has drawn me to sites like this.

    Liked by 6 people

  6. We r also afraid 2 critically analyze internalized homophobia that motivates trans people who do NOT want 2 b Womyn in the world loving Womyn, or men in the world loving men

    Liked by 4 people

  7. survivorthriver

    Yes, yes, yes. I am spinster, lapsed 20 years from trauma-bonded heterosexuality, and with lifelong lesbian BF 65+ years she’s dyke and survived all that entailed.

    Men get off on domination in sex. That’s what the male cross dresser sex fetishists are demanding. Men can get off with right or left hand, but prefer to experience sexual domination of vagina as affirmation of their superiority.

    Lesbians are not bigots. Transwomen are males. Sex 101, not gender BS.

    Liked by 4 people

  8. stchauvinism

    Reblogged this on Stop Trans Chauvinism.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. I’m going to try to be diplomatic in my phrasing here, so please excuse me if I don’t get it quite right.

    Ok, you’re a woman whose attracted to those you consider to be women, that’s fine, nothing wrong with it. If say you are properly and respectfully propositioned in a way that we’d all like and deserve by a transwoman, and you respond to her in a similarly proper and respectful way, then that’s fine, nothing wrong it. If you act in an improper and disrespectful way ie you act like an asshole (sorry, no better way I can think to put it), then clearly that’s not ok.

    I do get what you’re saying however much I might disagree with you on certain things. It makes me think back to when I worked in pubs and people asked what the vegetarian options were, and I struggled to tell them, but my boss would mention the chicken or the fish, which clearly aren’t vegetables, they just aren’t red meat, so how could these people call themselves vegetarians while still eating meat???

    If you accept transwomen as women, that’s fine, if you don’t, that’s fine too. But if you go out of your way to make someone else feel bad, the. That’s not fine in any case.

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    • Lesbians are female homosexuals. Our partners are too. Transwomen arent included in this. Just like bananas arent. Or my well loved kettle.

      Liked by 2 people

      • And of course you have the medical and scientific evidence to back this up don’t you…?

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      • Medical and scientific evidence to back what up? We know what same-sex attraction is. I don’t understand what we would need evidence for, unless you don’t think that lesbians are capable of understanding and discussing their own sexuality.

        Liked by 7 people

      • My last reply wasn’t the best and I apologise, but if you don’t want to be intimate with a transwoman, then don’t be, no ones holding a gun to your head. There are lesbians that think transwomen can be lesbians and some the don’t. If you do you do, and if you don’t you don’t, either is fine, just don’t be a dick about it either way is what I’m trying to say.

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      • Oopster, you are the problem here for lesbians. We know what and who females are and what and who lesbians are. Not science needed. We want people like you to stop discriminating lesbians. Thats all we want and to leave us alone. We get enough lesbophobia, we dont need you to add to that.

        Liked by 7 people

      • Tweek, I don’t discriminate against anyone and I don’t think you know me well enough to say if I do or not. I’ll repeat what I’ve already said. Be intimate with whoever does it for you, and don’t be if they don’t, that’s pretty simple to understand isn’t it.

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      • I think it’s really interesting that I write about collective pressure on lesbians, and social attempts to erase lesbian sexuality and sexual boundaries, and you respond by telling lesbians not to be dicks in rejecting the male born.

        When does this discussion get to be about the anti lesbianism that is going on? Why does it ALWAYS return to calls on women to be nice, and behave according to female socialisation (which tells women that their boundaries, needs and lives matter less than everyone else’s feelings).

        Is there a lesbian version of Lewis’ Law?

        Every thread defending lesbian same-sex boundaries has responses that demonstrate precisely *how* those boundaries are systematically belittled and undermined and *why* we are so angry about this.

        Liked by 9 people

      • I think I’m being misunderstood on what I said so I’ll try to rephrase.

        If someone comes up to and propositions you and you tell them to “fuck off and die”, I think we can all agree that that’s being a little bit rude and is “acting like a dick”. If you reply “thanks but no thanks”, then that’s being polite and not being a dick, however, if someone comes up to you and says “wanna fuck?”, then feel free to be as rude as you want. All I’m trying to say, is to treat others how you’d like or want to be treated yourself. You don’t tell the cashier when you go shopping to go fuck themselves as that would be acting like a dick, you thank them and say goodbye or something similar I’d guess. It’s just a bit of common decency I’m talking about, and I’m not saying you’d be being a dick if you say no to a transwoman, I’m saying you’d be a dick if you act like a dick about ie “no, fuck off you fucking tranny” would constitute acting like a dick.

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      • And to be super clear, of course I am against unprovoked aggression. I just think that the frame misses the reality of what happens to women in general and lesbians in particular.

        Liked by 7 people

      • Oopster, you said this:
        “If someone comes up to and propositions you and you tell them to “fuck off and die”, I think we can all agree that that’s being a little bit rude and is “acting like a dick”. If you reply “thanks but no thanks”, then that’s being polite and not being a dick, however, if someone comes up to you and says “wanna fuck?”, then feel free to be as rude as you want. All I’m trying to say, is to treat others how you’d like or want to be treated yourself. You don’t tell the cashier when you go shopping to go fuck themselves as that would be acting like a dick, you thank them and say goodbye or something similar I’d guess. It’s just a bit of common decency I’m talking about, and I’m not saying you’d be being a dick if you say no to a transwoman, I’m saying you’d be a dick if you act like a dick about ie “no, fuck off you fucking tranny” would constitute acting like a dick.”

        If I say I am a lesbian, I have made my boundary clear. If that word isn’t useful any more because it is taken to include the male born, then that directly reinforces the point I made in the post. If we don’t have language that describes us, our sexuality, our boundaries, then we have a problem.

        This is a very intentional socio-cultural shift, and one that undermines female sexual boundaries, specifically lesbian ones.

        So by saying I am a lesbian I expect to be left alone by anyone except women, and by women I mean adult females. I would take anyone born male propositioning same-sex attracted females (note how I have to say this because “lesbian” has been colonised?!) to be breaching their boundaries, BY DEFINITION. So theoretically, that permits rudeness (in case permission to speak was required).

        But to your point of women only being allowed to be rude to people once those people have been rude to them – let’s overlook, for a minute, that women are subject to sexualisation from childhood, objectification on a daily basis, and sexual harassment and rape that is so common as to be an epidemic. Let’s specifically not discuss corrective rape. Let’s forget for just a minute that all women we are discussing have experienced or witnessed some form of male sexual entitlement and are *quite possibly* more than a little tetchy about the male born thinking that propositioning them is ok.

        Ignoring the fact that being lesbian is a boundary, and ignoring for a second the abusive experiences women have, you are making a point about someone propositioning women and women, specifically lesbians, being rude back. Your point is entirely obfuscating the history of interactions between those born female and those born male about sexual matters, and sexuality matters.

        Women are often very polite, overly so, when rejecting others. This is socialisation and fear.

        Much more specifically, lesbians stating that they are only interested in women born female are called bigots, specifically TERFS. If you google this, you will see that the rhetoric around killing TERFs is most enthusiastic and utterly obscene.

        This makes your inference that lesbians can choose whatever partner they want but just need to stop being so mean rather inaccurate. Lesbians are, as a group, being pressured to redefine their sexuality. And those who resist are abused and vilified.

        It isn’t lesbians who need to learn to treat others with respect in this context, it is those who seek to erase our sexuality and who abuse us when we say that.

        Liked by 9 people

      • Firstly, why the need to be rude? How would you feel if the roles where reversed? Pretty shitty I imagine. Secondly, it’s not upto anyone to define what someone else is. I consider myself to be a transsexual woman and a lesbian, if you disagree, that’s your right, but you’re not going to change how I view myself, I’m not going to be able to change your mind about it, and if I were to pressure or bully you then that would be unnaceptable behaviour from me, so it’s something I wouldn’t do. If you got shitty with me, then I’d either try to ignore you or get shitty back, but if I see someone I like the look of, I’m not going to assume that they won’t like me just because I’m a transwoman, and you shouldn’t assume it expect me to do that. If someone propositions me and I don’t feel the same way, I tell them honestly in a way that won’t upset them, I had to do that earlier in the year and as drunk as I was, I still managed to not be an arsehole to them, so it’s not much to ask that others do the same and when I say others, I mean both men and women.

        Tell me, when a little bit of common decency and respect become bad things?

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      • TL;DNR – framing this as a matter of lesbians just needing to be nice in their rejection of men, despite already having stated boundaries and lifetimes of putting up with male sexual entitlement, is utterly disingenuous when it is lesbians who are copping the abuse.

        Liked by 8 people

      • I don’t understand where you got the idea that decency and respect are bad things, or that I said this. I didn’t. I just think the frame which posits lesbians as the rude ones is misleading, in the context.

        But I want to ask you about your use of the word lesbian in the context of what I said in the article: “When those of us who are same-sex attracted lesbians try to describe ourselves, our relationships or our sexuality, what word are we to use if we cannot use ‘lesbian’? If the word used for some time to describe us, as understood by most people, is no longer representative of us what language are we to use?”

        If we cannot use the word lesbian to MEAN female same sex attraction, what word do we have? This matters. The colonisation of female reality is not new, and it’s certainly not accidental. So why do *we* have to redefine ourselves?

        That we are in this position says EVERYTHING about power – who has it and what it is wielded to achieve.

        Ask yourself – who benefits when lesbians cannot name their boundaries or their sexuality? It isn’t women….

        Liked by 9 people

      • Simple, do you consider yourself a lesbian? Yes or no, if yes, congratulations! You’re a lesbian. If no, congratulations! You’re not a lesbian. It’s not upto anyone else to define who you are, that’s upto you yourself.

        As for the decency and respect question, I’m a little confused, so maybe if you read it again it may help, but I think I was meaning just to treat others correctly like we’d like to be treated ourselves, ie, if you treat someone badly, you can’t really object / complain if they treat you badly back.

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  10. listening2lesbians they dont want to see how completely hurtful and destructive this ‘debate’ is for lesbians. We are not dicks for being lesbian and setting our boundaries. lesbian ITSELF is a boundary. IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!!! I keep being shocked by this entire thing, what shit and abuse we get from so called progressive people. No is no, they need to fuck off. End of ‘debate’. Its complete homophobia and misogyny.

    Liked by 9 people

  11. Oopster, we could argue autogynephilia (which seems to be very well supported in the literature once you get past the noise and politics), poorly replicated results on very tentative science like BSTc nucleal differences, social studies on how much of gendered behaviour is learned (Cordelia Fine’s book on this is so good it’s going to become a cliche) – but actually I think the meat is in your first post:

    “Ok, you’re a woman whose attracted to those you consider to be women, that’s fine, nothing wrong with it. If say you are properly and respectfully propositioned in a way that we’d all like and deserve by a transwoman, and you respond to her in a similarly proper and respectful way, then that’s fine, nothing wrong it. If you act in an improper and disrespectful way ie you act like an asshole (sorry, no better way I can think to put it), then clearly that’s not ok.”

    The article is at pains to point out that lesbians who restrict their sexual encounters to females are having their spaces and language for themselves appropriated, being called transphobic, transmisogynistic, terfs, and of course they are also being doxxed and no-platformed. And this by a group of people who have a hissy fit if you get their preferred pronouns a bit wrong or dare to suggest that female and male, vagina and penis, are biological facts, not social constructions. (If you insist on the alternative, perhaps you could explain how the social construction of sex operates in cows, or any other sexually dimorphic species which lacks language.) Apparently women have to put up with any amount of entryism, sexual aggression, appropriating of language, erasure of our terms for ourselves, our common biology and sex-role based oppression, so that trans women don’t have to confront the unexceptionable truth that they were born male. And now lesbian women are expected to give up their sexual sovereignty as well. But when women object or say no to any of this, *we’re* the assholes?

    “If you act in an improper and disrespectful way ie you act like an asshole (sorry, no better way I can think to put it), then clearly that’s not ok.”

    Quite. And the trans women pushing this crap need to stop behaving like assholes, and show some respect for lesbian’s right to define their own sexuality, individually *and* as a group.

    From the article:

    “I see young lesbians confused by this, trying to do the “right” thing. Baby dykes asking if being lesbian CAN mean only being attracted to females, trying hard to be inclusive even in their own sexual experiences.

    That women are still asking if sexual boundaries are acceptable means that the rape culture which constantly erodes and undermines women’s sexual boundaries and attacks our determination to maintain them, carries on, stronger than ever.”

    Exactly. This is rape culture. And the comment I saw most often from lesbians when reading up on the cotton ceiling debacle was “if they knew what it felt like to be a woman, they would never, ever behave like this.” It’s a demonstration of male misogyny worthy of a bunch of MRAs.

    Behave like nasty, sexually aggressive, narcissistic, misogynist males, and that’s how we will regard you. If you want to be women so badly, then try behaving like women, and I don’t mean boob jobs and high heels. Find some empathy and nurture, and get a handle on the fact that respect is a two-way street. I can think of nothing more disrespectful, or more typically male, than believing you are entitled to call somebody names because they don’t feel obliged to have sex with you. Cock-teaser, feminazi, terf, transphobe, cis scum – they all sound exactly the same to me.

    Liked by 11 people

  12. Oopster, lesbians arent sexually interested in transwomen. Transwomen know this but ignore it. The fault is with them not us. You’d be surprised most ‘lesbian’ transwomen dont date other transwomen! So they KNOW what we mean when we say we arent attracted to transwomen. They arent either. Yet, lesbians are demanded to consider transwomen sexually. That you even defend them speaks volumes. It is a boundary violation. Its NOT a personal choice to be into transwomen or not as a lesbian. Lesbian MEANS transwomen arent part of our datingpool. Transwomen know this and should thus leave us alone. Its all so simple.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Life is not as black and white as that. I personally know many trans lesbian couples, many trans and non trans lesbian couples. For some people, its not an issue. For you, I guess it would be, and like I’ve said, that’s fine, but you speak for you as I speak for me. You don’t speak for all lesbians, I don’t speak for all trans lesbians.

      Like

      • They are not homosexual women aka lesbians. A transsexual friend of mine names these women (or ‘gay’ men that are also attracted to transmen) gendersexual. They are attracted to someone’s gender, not to the female sex (or male sex), this is not homosexuality but gendersexuality. You also havent said if you’d date other transwomen. I never understand why transwomen demand everyone accepts them as women, but dont give that same respect to lesbians. Youre coming into our house and rob us of something that is most valuable in our lives. Then you change the meaning and harass us for disagreeing. Also this. All transwomen focus is always on gender, but suddenly when it comes to sexual orientation its about someone’s sex. In honor of lesbians you should call your sexuality gendersexual. We’d appreciate it you stop discriminating us.

        Liked by 6 people

      • Look, it’s been a long day, I’m tired, I really can’t be bothered arguing. I would date anyone if we got on. Taking into account that most men are absolute idiots, that rules a lot of them out. Fwiw my ex is trans and we were in a long term relationship for a number of years before we broke up. Date whoever you want to date that wants to date you too, it’s no one else’s business but the people involved. I have no idea how you think I’m discriminating when I’ve not been the one setting restrictions.

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  13. Sexual orientation is more than just same-sex sex. For many reasons, in many parts of the world, entire subcultures comprised of men and women who were primarily homo-sexually oriented grew and matured, and became, in the West, civil-right movements. For Lesbians in particular, on our own and in coalition with gay men and with straight feminists, we have built a community in real life; we have our own neighborhoods, our own festivals, we have our own magazines and books and movies, we have our very own music! We are family.

    It isn’t a question of who I do or do not respond to when they come on to me sexually. Perhaps that’s true for men, I don’t know, because I am not a man. I am a Lesbian. I am a dyke, I am female, and I know who is and who is not in my pool of potential lovers, and/or family. If you don’t understand that, then–well, then, you aren’t a Lesbian.

    P.S. You dream of that magical transwoman who can ‘pass’ so well that she comes on to a dyke who can’t tell–that’s not just deceptive and rape-twisted, it’s a FANTASY. Take my word for it. We know. Don’t deceive or flatter yourself that way, OK?
    P.P.S. First comment that says “No transwoman would ever have sex with yout!” will be severely criticized.

    Liked by 4 people

  14. Oopster, you discriminate lesbians by suggesting male bodies, penises aka transwomen are part of our orientation and attractions. They arent. You keep pushing this. It ignores lesbian means female homosexual. Its why laws are created to protect us from such discrimination because we arent heterosexual. Transwoman+lesbian=heterosexual. So telling lesbian male people can be lesbians too is discrimination of us, telling us transwomen can be lesbian is also discrimination of us.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Also, Oopster, if you’d date anyone that you got on with youre not describing homosexuality, but pansexuality. Now can you please stop redefining what female homosexuality means? Thanks.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Tweek, with the utmost respect in the world, I will define my sexuality as is my right, as is your right to define yours. Strictly speaking I am bisexual, but most the men I fancy tend to be gay men, and most straight men are complete idiots so it’s simpler just to refer to myself as a lesbian.

      I am transsexual, I am a woman / female, you can agree or disagree with that as much as you want, you won’t change my thinking on that and I doubt I will change your thinking on that either, so I suggest we just agree to disagree.

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  16. Ooopster. Leave the poor lesbians alone you don’t get it. Come play with us het and bi women who might actually like you! 😉 puuurrrr…

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  17. No Oopster you are wrong.
    Leave the poor Lesbians alone and come play with us het and bi women who might actually like you. 😉 puurrr.. ❤

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    • Libby, het women want men, whatever most of the people on here think of me, when I’m in my birthday suit I look nothing like a man should. Bisexual women maybe interested, but if they were to view me as a man, they’d be disappointed and I wouldn’t want to be with them anyway. I’ll presume that most of the lesbian posters / readers here wouldn’t be interested in me and that’s their right and I respect their right to their choices, but, they are not all lesbians, they do not speak for all lesbians. I’m resigned to the fact that I’ll probably never be in the kind of relationship I want anyway, and with my new job I wouldn’t have the time they’d deserve me to give (hope I’ve phrased that right). Fwiw, a relationship for me doesn’t have to involve sex. Sex is nice, but it’s not the be all and end all.

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  18. Oopster, you being attracted to men by definition cannot male you a lesbian lol.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Tweekx, I’m really suck of arguing the toss with you. Think whatever which is your right, it’s my right, it’s everyone’s right, I’m really past caring and arguing about this.

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    • Then a lot of lesbians can’t call themselves lesbians either if they interpret things the way you just have. I am mainly attracted to women with the knowledge that there are some men that I am attracted to, so yes technically that makes me bi, but like I have already said, it is easier to say that I’m a lesbian. I’m defining who and what I am, and I’m not defining what anyone else is. You are trying to tell me what I am, when you don’even know me.

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      • Communication is a collective game, not a unilateral one. This is why words have meanings – we have collective understanding.

        Really, if lesbian meant “anyone who wants to call themselves one” irrespective of sex and/or same/opposite sex attraction, then the word would be practically meaningless.

        At the end of the day, we will always need, and have, words for female (sole) same-sex attraction because we will always have same-sex attracted women. Persistent appropriation of these words says a lot about how society is still keen to erase us, linguistically and in practise. The use of other words as slurs solely against us is the only time no one is rushing to apprise the meaning and this is about social sanctions aimed at discouraging us.

        Interesting set up isn’t it – positive words about us are appropriated, pejorative words against us are permitted.

        Language use displays power so clearly….

        Liked by 6 people

      • I’m not trying to erase anyone. I am a transsexual lesbian with some bi tendencies if you want the full explanation. My point being, that you have X lesbians ie femme lesbians, butch lesbians, etc (sorry, those are the only 2 I can think of right now). If anyone were to tell you what you could and couldn’t call yourself you’d be pist at them and rightly so, so can’t you see how doing that to me and to others will annoy and upset us too? In all honesty, if someone doesn’t want to be with me, then I don’t want to be with them, and forcing the issue or trying to get them to change their minds isn’t something I’m going to do, but I am what I am, I don’t need anyone’s permission or approval and if you don’t like it then that’s just tough, and I’d say that’s the attitude most of us should have.

        Like

      • Lesbians arent attracted to males, as you say so yourself, youre bisexual. So indeed such lesbians arent lesbians. Youre not a lesbian. A lesbian that falls in love with males is by definition not a lesbian. I do not understand why there is any confusion about this. Its crystal clear.

        Liked by 5 people

  19. Beautifully, powerfully stated. Thanks.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. The comments here are SO illuminating and remind me so much of Lewis’ Law (“comments on any article about feminism justify feminism”).

    Liz’s (lesbian) law ? the comments on any article about lesbian sexual boundaries demonstrate compulsory heterosexuality and rape culture…

    Oh, and appropriation.

    I can call myself tall, I can call myself Russian, I can call myself fluent in Hungarian. None of them are true. It’s not abuse or erasure to note that. It IS, however, inaccurate for me to say it. I might be upset that I am NOT fluent in Hungarian, but wishing to redefine what it means to be “fluent in Hungarian” doesn’t change the reality of my linguistic abilities. If you support me in thinking that I really am fluent because it means “to stammer out some key phrases”, you might make me feel better in the short term, but in the long term the truth will out.

    But what’s going on is so much more than just inaccurate, it is rendering words meaningless, removing our ability to use them and define a group of women for which or whom a name is required.

    When we remove the word lesbian from our lexicon, we resort to dyke, same-sex attracted female. When those words are removed, what do we say? Does anyone really think that we lesbians (meant in the original sense) actually cease to exist? No, we just become unnameable, the unspeakable.

    And in fact, “the unspeakable”, as a phrase, sums up a lot of what goes on – we are simultaneously prevented from naming our collective selves, and the words that remain are those that are slurs, because no one wants to appropriate the reality of living anti-lesbian abuse. So the reality of who we are remains, but is visible only in pejoratives. The positives, those are removed.

    The power is owned by those that define. It isn’t lesbians who own it, but we need to find ways to take it…..

    Liked by 5 people

    • Some good points, and I remembered something I possibly haven’t said, some people here may not consider me to be a woman, so logically, they wouldn’t see that I could be a lesbian too, however, and just think about my logic on this one, if I didn’t think / believe that I was a woman, then why would I have gone through all the medical things I’ve gone through? No one would do that as a fetish, before you get any treatment you have to prove you’re same first, and then have to essentially justify why you should go through the process, when most will have already gone through this process themselves through self analysis. I hope I phrased that in a way that makes sense.

      Like

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  23. Reblogged this on FeistyAmazon and commented:
    Love love LOVE this!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!-FeistyAmazon

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  24. Oopster, you’re a man. Stop being a dick. No amount of repeating whatever blah blah right-on appropriated label you want for yourself makes any of it real. We see you. You are male. You are not a lesbian. Males are not lesbians. If ever behaviour was a crystal clear example of what the OP was describing as appropriation, yours is it. That you point blank refuse to accept lesbians’ words that you are an appropriative berk says it all.

    Now quit whining about your identification feelz, ffs. Lesbians aren’t interested.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Owl, I am not a man. I was born with what looked like a male body but I identify as a woman and whether you agree with or not is irrelevant. You don’t want to be in a relationship with me, that’s fine, I don’t have issue with that, just show me the same dignity and respect you’d show anyone else, and would hope to be shown yourself.

      Like

      • If it looks like a male body, it is. “whether you agree with or not is irrelevant” NO it is relevant to US. Men cannot colonize women’s identity, lesbian identity and our spaces just because they “feel” like it. Men always get what they want, they badger, attack, annoy the crap out of you, physically harm you to get what they want. WE are saying NO, get it NO. When a woman says NO she means it. You have no freaking idea what it is “like” to be a woman, no idea at all. If you really want to make a difference for WOMEN, do something for the girls Boko Haram kidnapped…they have all been RAPED and most are PREGNANT, because that’s what happens to WOMEN in this world, do something for them and stop badgering lesbians to play with your lady wang.

        Liked by 2 people

      • You know zero about me. I don’t have “wang” as you put it, and what am I supposed to do to help them girls that have been kidnapped anyway? I’ve as much idea about what it is to be a woman as anyone else, so why don’t you think about what you’re going to write next time rather than just spew out a load of crap.

        Like

      • oopster says ” I’ve as much idea about what it is to be a woman as anyone else” That’s right you have an “idea”, which is something that you imagine or picture in your mind. (Merriam Webster) This NOT the same as reality, the quality or state of being real. There is a big difference between ideas and fantasies and reality. I don’t care if you, as a man prefer the gender role forced on bio women, you do it well because you invented it. If you really loved women and wanted to do something positive to abolish gender, you would remain a MAN (as you were born that way) and express yourself as you please, this is far more revolutionary to EXPAND what a man can be in Western society than running back to deadly (for women) stereotypes or proclaiming yourself a “woman”, which you are not. You have an “idea” what it is to be a woman, I have an “idea” of what it’s like to be tall (when I’m on a ladder), but that does NOT make me tall, it makes me a short person on a ladder.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Kismet, I am a transsexual woman. I am not a man, I was not born a man, I was born a baby. How I choose to live my life is entirely upto me. You seem to imply that I can only live my life if it suits you. You have no idea what I went through as a child to get where I am today. This isn’t some fetish to me. This is real life, and I have to make choices for me to suit me and no one else, the same as every other person on the planet.

        Like

      • Oopster says: “You seem to imply that I can only live my life if it suits you” You can live your life any way you wish, but you are not a WOMAN. You are not a biological woman who has her periods, goes through menopause, gets pregnant, gets freaking thrush, has sore tits during PMS. If you want to live your life I am happy, I am happy to identify you as a trans person, but not a woman. Get it? It’s OURS, we lived through it. I am not an unreasonable person, I am open minded and over the years have had many trans friends, but this latest push with the KIDS and all this invasion of women’s spaces is just too much. Some women want space away from people who were born men, it’s OUR right to have these spaces. I understand there is great diversity in the trans movement, but allowing trans in women’s toilets just allows creepy men in dresses to perve on us. It seems tran’s rights trump women’s rights and we are 51% of the population, not .003%. Imagine you had a tranny music festival with a 40 year history of hard work and sweat and a bunch of pervy straight men wanted to come claiming they were trans, but only dressed as women when they are alone and wanked off to themselves in a dress. Would you want these transvestites at your music festival?

        Liked by 5 people

      • Let me tell you in detail what I do when I go into the women’s toilet. I open the door, find an empty cubicle, check there’s toilet roll, wipe the seat, take my clothes down (trousers, shorts, skirt or dress) and underwear, I sit to pee or poo, when I’m done I wipe, pull my clothes up, leave the cubicle, then was and dry my hands before leaving the toilets. That’s what I do. My rights don’t trump anyone else’s rights and they never should. We should all be treated equally and fairly. Do you know how many “creepy men in dresses” I’ve seen in the ladies toilets or changing areas in 16 years? None, it doesn’t happen. It’s scaremongering from the religious right and you’re buying right into it. Do a little research on the hoops a trans person has to jump through on the NHS in the UK and you’ll realise that soon weeds out the “creepy men in dresses” as you put it.

        Like

      • oopster – i am thankful that you are respectful in women’s spaces, such as our toilets. I think if you research a little, you will find that “creepy men in dresses” do haunt our toilets, do invade our locker rooms. Look up the woman who was kicked out of Planet Fitness because she reported one of these “creepy” men in there. He was a MAN getting his rocks off and SHE was kicked out. If you check out http://genderidentitywatch.com/ you can read for yourself. This is NOT the religious right documenting this stuff, it’s feminist women.

        I am sorry, I don’t trust men at all. I am sorry for you, as you seem to be respecting our spaces, but how can we tell you apart from the creepy guys? When we walk around at night, how can we tell what the men following us are thinking or planning? Women have learned as a survival tactic NOT to trust men because some of them rape and kill us in alarming numbers. I have been attacked by men, once bitten twice shy, I cannot trust you.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I’ve read about the planet fitness gym too, and there’s wildly different versions of the story so I don’t know which to trust, normally you can see view a “prejudiced story” ie anything reported by Fox News, but not so with this one.

        I show everyone the dignity and respect id hope to be shown until I’m shown disrespect. As part of my current job, I’m regularly in the changing rooms of local swimming pools (I’m a live in carer to a lovely lady with Alzheimer’s). My biggest problem has and always will be what if someone stops me while I’m there and causes a scene. As her carer, I find a cubicle big enough for 2, we get changed, we go swimming, we change back, we go home. If anyone in any changing area causes you a problem, for your own sake / safety, don’t confront them, report them first to the place you are, and let them deal with it. If you see someone you suspect is trans in the locker room, chances are they aren’t the “creepy men in dresses”, and won’t be causing anyone any problems, and most likely will change in a cubicle.

        Like

      • http://genderidentitywatch.com/2015/03/09/carlotta-sklodowska-sklodowska1982-csklodowska-planetfitness-hrc-aclulgbt-usa/

        This is the individual who was in the women’s locker room in Planet Fitness. READ what this individual is all about. The woman who complained about this cross dressing man was expelled from her gym. Tell me this guy in the link is not creepy.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I don’t know the person in question, but I know that the person who runs that forum would describe them as creepy regardless of whether they were or not. What I see is an older person, not very “feminine” looking in stereotypically historic ways, but if that’s how we’re going to be judging people, then that’s a very slippery slope. I know of countless older women that look more like men than women, but that’s how some people age.

        What I’ve heard of this story is that the complainant went to the manager to complain, was told that the person they complained about was transgender. She then protested, she made a nuisance of herself and generally went about things in a really bad way, whereas the person she complained about just used the changing area for their intended purpose.

        Either way, I don’t know what version of the story to believe, which is why when I read something, I try to get all the viewpoints and make my own mind up what really went on. I remember a few years ago a story with the headline “woman attacked at ny dyke March” and there was a 20 min video to go with it. I watched the video, didn’t see anyone being attacked, but say bad behaviour from pretty much everyone in the video.

        Like

      • Oh come on, read the shit Carlotta spouts. He wasn’t even a member of gym, he said he was looking for a friend’s bag and entered there twice and just sat in a corner leering. STOP defending these creeps, read what this creep says. This is what I, and other women are afraid of if the floodgates are open in women’s spaces, you get the nut jobs.

        If you are referring to Cathy Brennan from Gender watch, thank the goddess for her, she has the guts to publicly stand up against this crap. LISTEN to what she has to say, when you see her on videos she is a very reasonable and intelligent women, she doesn’t hate anyone, she (and many women) are just not swallowing this trans invasion.

        It’s the trans movement, the constant pushing of women’s and lesbian boundaries many women object to. The constant invisibility in the LGBT movement. Tinkering with children of 12 year old children, media glorification of Bruce Jenner in his lady pose makes us SICK. FUCK for 40 years I’ve been fighting this shit and Bruce throws on a corset and it all of a sudden he’s brave, hetero-normative and fashionable. And the guy keeps his dick and still fancies women, and then slags gays and lesbians, he’s not one of “those”. Utterly pathetic.

        By being blasé about Carlotta, you are encouraging his behaviour. READ what he says in posts, this a twisted individual I would rather not share a changing room with, if it’s OK with you of course.

        Liked by 3 people

      • I’ve not looked into what carlotta has said if I’m honest. If she’s transsexual, intending to transition etc then she was ok being where she was. If he was a transvestite, then no, he shouldn’t have been in the women’s locker room.

        I’m pretty sick of Jenner too “ooh she’s so brave for transitioning isn’t she”, is she bollocks! She doesn’t have to worry about losing her job, being thrown out on the streets or have to jump through the hoops that other trans people have to.

        Yes the video I was talking about was the one with Cathy Brennan and after all I’ve heard and read about her I so wanted her to be the one in the wrong, but the only one that acts vaguely human in the video is the woman not wearing a top showing off her breasts (showing off is possibly the wrong words to use but the best I can think of).

        I’ve had my run ins with Cathy Brennan, I’ve said things that I shouldn’t have, but she is a horrible person that shows zero respect to anyone who doesn’t agree with her and fall at her feet (I’m exaggerating slightly, but not by much). Basically she’s a bully.

        Just a little info regarding Caitlyn Jenner, don’t expect her to have lower surgery till 2016 at the earliest, these are the rules of the game if you’re trans.

        Like

  25. Yeah, what Owl said. If oopster actually meant it when he says, “if someone doesn’t want to be with me, then I don’t want to be with them,” then he wouldn’t be here committing felony appropriation and performing repetitive transplaining all over lesbians’ words.

    Liked by 3 people

  26. Hmm..I am attracted to people with Bartholin glands, call it a fetish if you will LOL. So if mister oopster propositioned me for intimacy, I’d just say I have a bartholin gland fetish and be done with it.

    Like

  27. Here’s the part I don’t understand. There isn’t a grouping on the planet that doesn’t get to say who their own are. Do adults who identify as boy or girl scouts get to join the troop? No. How about political entities protecting their borders? Can I declare myself another nationality and expect to go there and be accepted as a genuine Such-and-Such? What if I’m feeling like a master-carpenter one day? Am I entitled to those jobs? Will the other master-carpenters accept me as one of their own if I wear my carpenter pants and a hammer? What if I think I’m really a gazelle? Will the other gazelles accept me into their gazelle midst? Can I insist that someone date me if they’re looking for someone of a different race? Should I be able to file for veteran’s benefits if I’m feeling particularly soldierly? No? So why should this be any different for lesbians? Why are we the only group that does not get to determine who our own are? Why are we the only ones who have to accept the erosion of our self-determination?

    And why are we the only ones who are getting badgered in this way? Do MTTs harass straight males (the bio kind) and insist that they HAVE TO date them because they are “really women”? Do gay men get berated, condemned and vilified if they want an actual (real/ bio) penis attached to a partner? Are straight women expected to HAVE TO go out with transpeople who feel the hots for them? Again, no. It seems we’re the only ones who are expected to accommodate the demands of men pretending to be women. I find that curious indeed.

    Liked by 3 people

    • A little bit of common sense is needed here.

      Firstly, someone who’s transsexual, they realise at whatever age that they’re transsexual and some do something about it, some don’t. Those that transition are embracing for use of a better word, who they are, they aren’t pretending to be something they’re not. I truly believe that being transsexual is similar to an intersex condition, we just don’t have all the facts and figures yet. Now, as I’ve said countless times, it doesn’t make you a biggot if you don’t want to be with someone who’s trans, unless you act / respond in a bigoted way. Let’s say for argument sake that instead of being trans they’re a different colour to you. If you reject them because of the colour of their skin, are you being racist? Maybe, maybe not, it depends on what you say and do. I had a 20 year old black girl ask me if I’d be ok seeing her as she’s black, and I was appalled that she felt she had to ask that. I said that colour wasn’t an issue, but she was half my age, and that would be a problem for me (I know big age gaps occur in relationships but it would make me feel really old. I think I set my limit at ten years either side my own age).

      The thing is, it’s not a big issue if you don’t make an issue out if it. Someone you’re not attracted to asks you out etc, tell them yes or no, it’s really that simple. If they gave you shit for saying no, give them shit back or ignore them. It’s not diffucult to do.

      Like

  28. oopster “Someone you’re not attracted to asks you out etc, tell them yes or no, it’s really that simple”. If it was that simple we wouldn’t have this cotton ceiling crap thrown at us. Lesbians have said “NO” and you don’t listen, men don’t hear “NO”. Female homosexuals, lesbians, women, dykes et al. like female genitals, we like how they feel, how they smell, how they react to our touch. Lesbians don’t want someone who looks or acts “like” a woman. I always equate it to “I can’t believe it’s not butter” – it looks like butter, but it’s margarine, man made and fake and it sure don’t taste like butter.

    Liked by 4 people

    • So don’t be with that person then! It really is that simple. There’s someone I know who keeps cracking onto me (hitting on me I think is the American way of saying that) and I’m not interested and I’ve told them as much. I don’t want to upset them though by getting shitty with them regardless of the situation.

      Someone hits on you, you don’t want to do anything with them, say “no thanks”, it’s that easy. Me personally, I don’t have the courage or whatever it is to ask anyone out, but, if someone did ask me out, before anything happened, I would tell them I’m trans, and then leave it to them whether they want to carry on or end it there, but that’s me, I’m honest about who I am.

      Like

  29. In an attempt to get back to the topic, a lesbian not being attracted to a trans lesbian isn’t bigotry if she doesn’t act in a bigoted way, ie being abusive to the transwoman in some way. How she acts towards the transwoman dictates whether she’s being bigoted or not. If I tell someone that I don’t date black people, am I being racist? Maybe, some people won’t consider dating people who are a different skin colour to them, and some of those reasons will be racist, and some won’t.

    Like

    • Oopster, it is NOT transphobic to not want to date transwomen as a LESBIAN that by definition means we are attracted to FEMALES only. You cant compare that with racism as racism isnt a sexual orientation. After all these posts lesbians telling you what lesbian is and means, you still refuse to get it. Lesbian means FEMALE HOMOSEXUAL and nothing else. As transwomen are MALE we are by DEFINITION not into them. Here is another thing. The way you argue this is actually the opposite of what you say. You still dont hear the word NO. You also say lesbians shouldnt be bigoted when rejecting a transwoman. But what about transwomen being bigoted to lesbians by the simple fact of going after us for dates? Thats pretty bigoted to lesbians. And when lesbians say NO, then us being branded bigots is a rape tactic. That is the DANGER we face when transwomen ask us for dates. We lesbians just want you to stay away from us to put it very bluntly. You are not in our dating pool and we;d like you and many other transwomen to GET that. We are no option for transwomen and we’re tired of having to say no all the time to people like you, not wanting to hear that no.

      Also, go date pansexual, queer women or other transwomen. Its all so simple.

      Also, another issue is that you are bio male and that lesbian excludes biologically born males.

      You do NOT take us seriously in anything we say.

      You are a very stubborn, lesbophobic person.

      Liked by 3 people

  30. This is OK on an individual level, but trans are invading our spaces and as a lesbian, woman and feminist I need to PUSH BACK. They are destroying our music festivals, wanting access to our bathrooms, locker rooms and other private spaces. On an individual level I respect individual’s choices, but the TRANS MOVEMENT and the woman hating men pushing it are too much. Check your trans movement, listen to your spokespeople, if you don’t agree with what they doing speak up. There are a hell of a lot of fakers and woman haters amongst them. Go fight them, go fight men who physically harm you, it’s not rad fems who are bashing and murdering trans people, it’s MEN. You respect bio women’s space and we’ll respect yours. It’s a two way street.

    Liked by 3 people

  31. Oopster, this blog is about LISTENING to LESBIANS, not listening to trans’plaining about lesbians. If you are trying to ‘splain how you are not a man, it is not working. You are male, and you are acting just like any other man who thinks he knows best and is entitled to pontificate. Go away.

    Liked by 5 people

    • What I’m doing is taking part in a debate on a blog just like all the other people here and you either agree with what I post or you disagree, yet you call it transplaining, a word you have to come up with that doesn’t actually exist. No one has all the answers, but we all have opinions, and we can all contribute to make others stop and think, so just because you disagree with me on some things, it doesn’t mean you have to disrespect me. If you think I’m wrong, tell me why, that’s how debate works, people talk things over.

      Like

      • I think your comments have demonstrated appropriation very concretely and far more effectively than anything I could write.

        Since you have asserted that you respect boundaries, I am asking you to respect mine/ours and stop commenting on this post.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Oopster, there is NOTHING to debate. Lesbians are female homosexuals. Thats it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oopster says “yet you call it transplaining, a word you have to come up with that doesn’t actually exist.” A bit like “cis” eh?

        Liked by 3 people

      • Kismelt, why don’t you pick up this thing called a dictionary and see what words are there and what they mean. Cis comes from the Roman I’ve been told.

        Like

      • Oopster, you were asked to respect the boundary I set in my last comment and not comment further on this post.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Yes and I apologise. I said I’d only reply to questions to me, but hoped they’d pm me which they didn’t.

        Like

      • It’s Latin actually. Idiota, abscedo. Don’t mess with ex Catholic girls.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Omg how stupid! The Romans invented Latin, it’s their language!

        In an attempt to respect the boundaries l2l has asked me to respect, I won’t be making any further comments on this blog on this topic, so if I don’t reply, please don’t take that as me being ignorant. Direct message me or contact me through my blog if you want a reply from me.

        Like

  32. You are male, oopster. We are not required to share your delusions. Your being here pontificating is what is disrespectful. Your opinions about lesbians is neither required nor desired. Go away.

    Liked by 3 people

  33. Oopster—constantly demonstrating that he is just another male. Opinions are like belly buttons—everybody has one. Biological fact: You are still male. Material fact: You are still not listening to lesbians. You are a waste of time, and I hope the owner of this blog bans you, so that we are no longer treated to your blathering. I am done responding to your idiocy. Have fun talking to yourself. I’m sure that you will be entertained.

    Liked by 2 people

  34. Great article here. Thank you. I’d just spam this oopster guy if I was you. He’s harassed me on my blog for years now and other women I know too. He’ll stick around and comment on every single thing you post forever.

    Liked by 4 people

  35. Mary Sunshine

    I would like the owner of this blog to ban comments by males. They overtake the blog and demoralize lesbians.

    If you are “listening to lesbians” at all, then please listen to this one: Ban males from this blog

    Thank you.

    Liked by 5 people

  36. Oopster. Listen. That’s all. Listen. Listen to the many women here telling you things about how women feel. Listen. YourSillySister said it quite clearly. I am just repeating what she said. If you want to know how women feel about something you have to LISTEN to them. You can argue all you want but it will get you nowhere. A bunch of women, lesbians as a matter of fact, have been quite polite in explaining to you how lesbians feel about this subject. Open your ears (and your mind) and LISTEN to them. They are the experts after all.

    Liked by 5 people

  37. First time reading this blog, and my reaction was, “Men are trying to define lesbianism now?” And then, in reading some of the comments, and seeing that some were attempting to hijack the discourse by turning it into a discussion about whether or not lesbians should be polite about refusing sexual advances or not – well, the mind just boggles. Did some MRAs sneak in here or…because that’s what it almost sounded like to me. Power. It’s always about power.

    I learnt some things from this. Thank you for an enlightening blog entry!

    Liked by 2 people

  38. Victoria, of course they try. Being against homosexuality is not socially acceptable anymore, so the next best thing is to redefine lesbianism to include males.

    If this was really just about transwomen looking for partners, then they could just use the term “translesbian” and partner up with each other, or people who are attracted to them. There would be no need to invade lesbian spaces. The dating pool would be small, but that’s life. Others have to deal with it, too.

    The agressiveness towards lesbians, however, makes it pretty clear that this is about males who are angry that women reject them. Nothing new.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Pingback: #ThankaFeminist Australia 2015 | REAL for women

  40. How on earth can any woman bully other women, and particularly Lesbians on behalf of men? It’s literally pimping for the men. Of course men can’t be women and of course men can’t be Lesbians.

    Haven’t they taken enough from us?

    Any of us who say no to these men have gotten rape and death threats. The rate of violence from men demanding we accept them as women is the same as by other het men, yet now they are being included in statistics on women being violent.

    Women all over the world are saying no, but men run the media and so the trans cult propaganda is still being spread.

    https://bevjoradicallesbian.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/please-if-you-love-lesbians-and-other-women-think-about-this/

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Every thing lesbians say is true. If transwomen lesbians are every thing say they women, then why arent they dating, forming relationships having sex w/ each other. That mean their the ones who r tranphobic transmisogynist
    cissexist. This abt being 2x validated as women and being sexually desired by lesbian. They are obsessed w/ are vaginas. But if we talk about r vaginas, that transmisogyny. Only 33% will get SRS, they still will have to dialate 3x a day, for the rest of their lives. Imagine putting your fingers in that and feeling their prostate gland. Vomiting in my mouth as i type.

    Like

  42. The word “transphobic” is so overused, I just don’t care anymore.

    The truth is that sexuality is about which sex you’re attracted to, not which gender. Homosexual is defined as “a person who is sexually attracted to people of the same sex” and heterosexual is defined as “a person who is sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex” by the dictionary (dictionary.cambridge.org). And, sex is not about what you identify as, it’s about your reproductive function — something which can’t be changed by hormones or surgery. But, you can’t reason with these people.

    Over the course of my life, I’ve been called plenty of names for being true to myself. I think anyone who’s spent time being true to themselves understands that it’s just par for the course. You’re yourself and someone invariably has a problem with it. Why? Who knows. People just get upset when you’re being true to yourself and enjoying your life. But, it doesn’t stop being worth it to be yourself just because you encounter the occasional fleet of rabid asshats. That’s just life. It happens. You can’t please everyone.

    But, all of this hysteria? All of this vilifying of other people when their needs aren’t being catered to? These are miserable people. They’re just so obviously miserable. And, other people catering to them or not isn’t the problem here. There’s something deeper going on and unless they solve that, they’re going to be miserable forever. So, spending all their time vilifying people who can’t be attracted to them is a waste of time that is ultimately hurting them more than anybody.

    And, as for the LGBQ (notice the lack of a “T”) community, we’re waking up to this. Just check out DataLounge. Fewer and fewer people are supportive of this extremist transgender ideology. It’s just hard to say that publicly, which is why it seems otherwise. So, the agreement and support is out there. We just need to find each other locally.

    Like

  43. Thank you, signed a lesbian who got backhanded for saying that I might not like penises and felt guilty about it.

    Like

  44. Pingback: The controversy around Facebook banning lesbians from using the word ‘dyke’

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